00:00.00
Kent
Hey everybody this is your friend kent see odds and I am joined by Simeon Griggs say hi Simon it's going great. It's good. Good good. Really excited to chat with you about making user experience better here on the remix podcast. So um.

00:06.38
Simeon
Hey Ken hey going.

00:19.15
Kent
Yeah, ah, we met in person for the first time this year. Um, at ah, react advanced in London at a ah bar that was way too loud um to to have ah any useful or great conversation. But. It was nice to to meet you and and it's been a pleasure to get to know you online as well before we get too far into things I think it'd be great for the people listening to get to know you a little bit so would you like to give a little intro to yourself and.

00:47.65
Simeon
Yeah, sure so I've been building websites for a while now. But more recently I am working day-to-day at http://sanity.io where I'm a solution engineer which is not a job title that I was all that familiar with until I came into the job. But yeah, we just.

01:01.56
Kent
I.

01:05.31
Simeon
Coming up with things all the time solutions for working with Http://sanityio Ah, the product itself so we get to see all sorts of interesting questions and and problems every every single day with all sorts of different frameworks. So yeah, always on the hunt for New Frameworks and that's how. Got really interested in looking to remix recently.

01:23.92
Kent
You up? Yeah sweet and you were 1 ah you may have been the first official cms to have an integration with remix is it like an example and published and doing live streams and stuff like that too. So we really appreciate that. Um. And ah, yeah, so with your work is in like building a sem. Well here I should I should take a step back I've never used like an off theshelf cms before. So for my so my stuff it's always been markdown and mdx.

01:51.86
Simeon
M.

01:59.67
Kent
For my own stuff and I I think that's best suited for what I'm doing because I like people making Prs to my content and stuff like that. It's really difficult to do that with the cms. Um, when I was at Paypal we did have a Cms but it was like this in-house thing or at least. Nothing that I really understood or or dealt with much we just honestly actually it was just like a ah bunch of flat files and that they had some sort of tool that they built for updating those flat files that were committed in our repo. That's that's what it was that was our Cms. Um, yeah it it worked I guess um.

02:27.42
Simeon
Yeah, yeah, that's advanced stuff.

02:36.85
Kent
So yeah I don't have much experience with a cms though I do feel like I have a pretty good understanding of the problems that it's solving. Can you talk a little bit about the the problems that a Cms solves like why why? How does how does that help the user experience to have a Cms.

02:50.56
Simeon
Yeah, so sanity. Um I suppose yeah I can hear the voices ringing my ear with multiple of my coworkers is that sanity's so much more than a Cms we ah ah we're ah we're a platform for structured content. Um, but essentially and I I write it on my blog occasionally that we're not trying to be a Cms but.

03:00.24
Kent
Aha Oh good o.

03:08.83
Kent
Ah.

03:09.52
Simeon
The best cms I'll be biased there. But yeah, so the the need that solves though is that you can have multiple people collaborating all in the same studio all at the same time and what makes sanity really incredible is the way that it's composable. It's like the world's best toolbox of Cms Affordances so

03:27.40
Kent
Ah.

03:29.27
Simeon
You build the content model that you need. We'll host the images we'll host the data and and you get this deployable version of your content that you can host where you like so it's just incredibly flexible near infinitely customizable queryable. It's just ah, yeah, whatever you need the content editing experience to be It can be. And the way that helps with user experience is that it's not tied to a particular like website project. It's just content. So ideally, you're you're creating a content structure that lives. You know for this version of your remix website but also the next version of the remix website and also your Alexa app and you're this that and the other and so it goes so much beyond just this one website project.

04:07.49
Kent
Its, interesting. Okay so structured content. Um, yeah, that's that's fascinating and and so have you seen. So yeah, typically if I'm thinking about a cms then I'm thinking. Okay so I have this the header and I've got like this. Text over here and whatever and so it's very um, one to 1 with the the design of the site and so what you're saying is sanity um can be that but it's really more about structured content in like in general. So I guess I'm I'm trying to picture what this. Looks like and and how that like yeah, what is sanity you know.

04:50.84
Simeon
Yeah, and so so like ah 1 example I'm working on at the moment is ah so say you've got a course platform I mean this is ah a problem space that you'd be infinitely familiar with yourself. So you know.

04:57.82
Kent
Ah.

05:03.00
Simeon
Every lesson isn't just a web page. You know you've got lessons but you've also got courses. You might have presenters you might have media you you know you might have translations of those things and those are individual pieces of content. You can stitch those together with relationships but we're not just talking about. You know this is the lesson page. This is the course page but rather you know.

05:03.61
Kent
I ah.

05:13.18
Kent
Ah, okay.

05:22.79
Simeon
This is a course page and it happens to query all of the course data you know in the course type documents that you have so trying to relate things along lines of the content that it is and then relate them to one another you know, based on where it makes sense to relate them together instead of just because if if you go too much down the Avenue of relating everything to pages. Well. Really important you know business logic or business content might be embedded within the fifth block of the about page page builder you know and it and it it has to be copied and pasted between Sections. So and also too like through its full extreme with content as data as we speak about is like the rich text editor itself. When you export that it's not html strings. There's There's no markup in it. It's an array of objects which means that you can loop over that how you like and an example of that is on my blog which is on remix and the content powered by Sanity My Rich text editor creates a table of contents set of headers.

06:05.79
Kent
What.

06:19.26
Simeon
When I serialize that array of objects it creates links in each of the headers individually I even built a commenting platform because every paragraph has its own Id because it's an array of objects I've now got a commenting form which means you can leave a comment on any individual paragraph in the blog.

06:28.99
Kent
Ah.

06:35.32
Kent
True.

06:36.88
Simeon
And a blog post. So I get a notification in slack now because of ah a webhook that says that somebody has left a comment on this paragraph of this blog post and I can see that like really drilled down and and uniquely set in my sanity studio.

06:50.10
Kent
It interesting. So and even the comments are are with insanity as well. Yeah.

06:54.14
Simeon
Yeah, I'm choosing to put those in there. That's that's a choice that I can make because my blog doesn't get that much traffic if you were getting hundreds of thousands of comments a day. Maybe you know that's where you might look at putting you know because things like a user meta or ecommerce sales. You know those things are best on a dedicated platform. But.

06:59.66
Kent
Ah I.

07:12.30
Simeon
When you've got just content and you've got ah you know a certain volume of it. Yeah, put put whatever you like insanity just you know, start up a comments type a blog post type and yeah, put whatever fields you need in that.

07:18.97
Kent
I Oh okay so it's I think it's becoming clear to me that sanity is like a database for content.

07:28.71
Simeon
Yeah of sorts and the editing interface is driven off of that so you write these schema models. You say you know I've got a comment type I've got a blog post type and then you say what fields are in that and then based on all those configuration files. You know the sanity studio which is our our application you host. Or you can host yourself or we can host for you that then is the editing interface for users based on that schema you've registered and it's got that whole infrastructure as code sort of thing. So you know if you've determined that if you've set up that schema in files that's then version controlled. You can apply logic to that because it's not like yaml files or Json or a Dragand drop page builder. You know if you're around Javascript logic over building out schema. You can have some really powerful expressions of using logic to create validation rules or create schema themselves. So again sort of speaks to the flexibility of it because it's all written in code what your. Editing interface looks like um yeah you you can build sort of whatever editing model you need for content of any type.

08:28.18
Kent
It? Yeah fascinating. Yeah, that's that's really interesting. Yeah, so like I hear about sanity mostly on syntax fm like they're always talking about? Yeah yeah, um, and ah yeah, sanity seems like a ah, really powerful mechanism for the.

08:36.86
Simeon
That's where everybody knows this wrong through? Yes yeah.

08:45.97
Kent
Lots of the types of sites that people who are listening to this podcast um will Build. We are typically building. Um, ah a yeah, a site that presents content in a unique way. And we're not always in charge of the content and and so we put in these placeholders for the content. Um, so.

09:06.41
Simeon
Yeah, and you're putting guardrails around content editors as well because you're not letting them run roughshod over a page builder which means they can get themselves into all sorts of trouble but you can say here are the fields you can edit and will take care of the front end because the front end is decoupled entirely from your actual content editing.

09:16.41
Kent
Um, got it? Yeah yeah, that's fascinating, very Cool. So um, what was it when when you first. Um, started using Remix. What was it that ah appealed to you about remix because like you rewrote your your site was it just like for the fun of playing with it. Um, what was your experience like.

09:39.96
Simeon
Um, it was a bit of that I think actually speaking of syntax I know you're allowed to talk about other podcasts on this podcast it speaking of syntax I heard Wes colscot the other day a golden retriever of javascript frameworks and I I feel quite the same in that. Yeah I just want to look at the the newest and and latest thing but but.

09:49.73
Kent
Ah.

09:58.86
Simeon
To be honest because I deal with a lot of different frameworks and you know I've got like large clients with huge static sites on on other competing frameworks seeing and I'm trying to be very diplomatic here seeing some of the issues that can arise at. Particular scales on those platforms very interested to see what other frameworks are out there. So I'm always trying the latest thing I had my blog mostly rewritten in Astro before I ended up going to remix because I I've got to try them all at least once. But I think that the moment is and this is what I'd stressed anybody who hasn't already tried remix but is trying this is listening to this podcast.

10:23.59
Kent
Ah.

10:35.44
Simeon
Is like deploy something through to production and then in your cms hit the publish button and see your website. Update um I think that the author had a lot of thought recently about momentum and there is incredible momentum behind hitting the publish button and seeing your website updated that in the few last years

10:49.48
Kent
Yeah.

10:55.26
Simeon
Um, you know hitting the publish button didn't really mean anything because then you go and had to go and hit the the rebuild button and then you have to wait five to ten minutes or 20 or 30 or 40 and then see your website change where like that's literally like it's ah it's a mindblowing experience I feel like i.

10:56.62
Kent
I Yeah, ah.

11:11.76
Simeon
It's like your whole worldview changes or something. It's one of those paradigm shift moments like oh yeah, this is how things used to be and I convinced myself that you know it was It was better the other way. But yeah, the serverless Technologies change right? and and now this is doable again this whole sort of server client model in a way. So I think that was the big Mind- blowing moment and that's why I'm.

11:15.48
Kent
Yeah.

11:30.87
Simeon
So jazz about remix now. It's just that momentum that you get with a deployed application and your cms like sitting nicely behind it.

11:36.24
Kent
Right? Yeah, um you you are speaking my language I I started getting into this before we all started building our own blogs with ah with frameworks and stuff and so my first blog was wordpress and it was just like that was so normal to. Save your blog post and you go over to your site just to double check. It looks good and it's there. It's right right away and no, it's not necessarily what I would term fast. It wasn't a fast website but um, ah like at least my content was there and because it wasn't a fast website. We're like okay, well let's.

11:59.26
Simeon
Yeah.

12:13.46
Kent
What if we could generate all this stuff ahead of time put it on a Cdn that's like the fastest thing that that we possibly could do is put something on a Cdn servers all over the world put that file right next to them. But then you you lose what you were talking about like that instant publish ability. My website took 16 minutes to publish when it had a warm cache if it didn't have a warm cache then it would time out and I'd have to run it like 3 times to to rev up the cache again. So I could actually successfully publish and then the other thing is that um.

12:34.79
Simeon
M.

12:41.83
Simeon
Yeah.

12:51.40
Kent
Anytime you decide. Okay, you know what I want to do something dynamic here then you're giving a user a poor experience with a loading spinner and so yeah, you you get both and and the reason that we we did it ssd in the first place was because Wordpress was slow right? or we wanted something faster. Um.

12:56.45
Simeon
Yeah.

13:04.57
Simeon
Yeah, yeah I was there before as well and I had the same experience in that. Yeah, doing a lot of wordpress sites and you'd slap cloudflare on front of it and like I was using like roots Io and I don't know if you ever looked into that it was like this like really incredible.

13:09.43
Kent
And so.

13:19.81
Kent
Ah.

13:23.98
Simeon
Set of Framework tools for like building enterprise- grade wordpress websites but it was still like the the maintenance of owning a server and and running a server and maintaining it and having to know what the latest version of uon to Ism and that sort of stuff is just it was too much where that's and I think that's again, my excitement is there again that that.

13:34.95
Kent
Yeah.

13:43.20
Simeon
That's feasible again, but without the hassles that that we have to solve with Ssg and the example I can give on that is I wrote a blog post recently that got a little bit of traffic. Um, and I have my remix blog hosted on fly io with the with the default configuration and I just have like cloudflare.

13:56.72
Kent
Ah.

14:02.46
Simeon
Running my Dns. Um I think I've got 105000 unique visits or something in 24 hours and 0 like issue like there. There was no slowdown nothing and and I like I at that point you sort of start to so look sideways at static.

14:05.90
Kent
Wow. So. Wow I.

14:21.45
Simeon
Um, we could because ah everything seems solved um in that and yeah with no development effort or no lift being able to serve that many page views off of a remix app sort of it was a nice use case was a nice sort of validation of of switching over.

14:32.76
Kent
It Yeah it Yeah totally well and it's It's funny I mean that was a long-running server too. That's not even serverless where they're always talking about Oh but you can scale. You know,? whatever and so yeah. It. It was good that you just happened to have enough memory to to handle that I guess Um, but.

14:52.27
Simeon
That's and that's that's where I have to like I'll ah I'll let I put my head up admit I don't truly understand what fly Io like how that hosting works but but like getting it getting it set up was so easy I didn't even have to understand how it worked and it handled all that traffic like um.

14:56.19
Kent
Yeah, yeah, right.

15:06.35
Simeon
Yeah, the the server server Maintenance isn't what it was so we can like use servers or serverless again which is cool.

15:07.99
Kent
It? Yeah I yeah precisely And and so I was going to mention that like because because you mentioned well you can put codflare in front of wordpress and make it fast. Um, and that's that's true unless you wanted to like do some. Dynamic thing per user then you can still sort of do that. But yeah, caching doesn't really do as much for you. There. But yeah, like at at the time. Um I was just like I had no idea what I was doing um and so the idea of putting. In fact, I don't even know if cloudflare was. Very widely used at all back then um, and and so but I certainly like you weren't going to find me setting up my own server back then like no way that I would not want to do that So you you use you buy a domain with the hosting thing and they happen to have some wordpress thing you can do and so you just do those together and. Um, but now like and so that's that was what's so appealing of static site generation. Um, you know you just like I literally I could build it on my machine and then drag and drop the folder over to this cool Ui in the browser and and now it's up and published and stuff. Um. But like it's not worth the or at the time it was kind of worth what what you got, but now the infrastructure's just gotten so good stuff like fly makes even long-running servers like super fast and scale quite well and then. With ah with serverless and and even more exciting Cloud compute of like edge computing. Um, we've got some pretty cool things where you you don't have to make the tradeoffs that you once did with user experience and developer Experience. You can have both.

16:46.26
Simeon
M.

16:56.21
Simeon
Yeah, no, it feels like the technology's caught up and that's pretty exciting and and it' to sort of see then what? what's next and I I desperately want to try out all the new cloudflare stuff. But I think just coming like to me cloudflare was always just the saved your bacon if you were running wordpress service service.

17:05.22
Kent
Yeah.

17:11.72
Kent
Yeah I.

17:14.71
Simeon
I haven't fully yet like got in my mind that like pages and workers are all these other new things. They're not just a Dns hosting company anymore. So I I do need to get my head around all of their they're much newer and more exciting offerings.

17:24.80
Kent
So yeah, yeah, I mean it is. It is really exciting. Um there. There are tradeoffs of course that you're making when you're using cloudflare it's not an actual javascript ah node environment. It is a Javascript environment. But yeah, not exactly node so there are some limitations. Um, you can't my biggest thing is that you can't use prisma there yet. Maybe one day you'll be able to but I love prisma I can't imagine working with ah with a database without prisma but maybe sanity I wonder if sanity runs on cloud for work you you should get that a shot.

17:47.49
Simeon
Ah.

17:59.26
Simeon
I know we're doing some work with our sanity client at the moment because there are a few node apis in there unfortunately, um, but there's like a smaller version of the client that does work there where just to do queries so you can't do mutations on cloudflare workers yet. But it's coming very soon. But yeah, like every querying data is just you you get Json back from sanity and you just.

18:04.64
Kent
Um I.

18:18.62
Simeon
Just do a http request right? So yeah, from from a basic http request. You can get back that Json data for the page and fill out your content from there. So yes, you can query data on cloudflare workers ah go for your life and actually I think there's somebody in the community building a demo with sanity and remix together and I think they're going to try and make it around workers. So.

18:18.70
Kent
Um, yeah.

18:25.99
Kent
Ah, yeah, yeah.

18:36.46
Kent
Sweet. Yeah yeah, well and then we've also got ah Dino is also a non-node environment that is is picking up steam somebody actually deployed dino to fly in a docker container and it is.

18:38.41
Simeon
Keep your eyes peeled for that I suppose.

18:46.90
Simeon
Mm.

18:55.51
Simeon
Yeah, ah.

18:56.33
Kent
Screaming fast. Um, so like the the cool thing is that you can have your your screaming fast application like and and remember like we're used to people waiting or we're we're used to websites taking like 3 seconds to actually load like. If. You're not a developer blog. That's a static site generated thing on a Cdn like 3 seconds is not unusual so we're we're talking like hundred milliseconds or less response times with dynamically generated stuff like stuff coming from sanity maybe Cached. Um.

19:20.68
Simeon
Um, no.

19:32.83
Kent
And it's stuff coming from a ah postgres database like it's wild what we have these days. Um, so if you could say that there's 1 thing that people should look into and and research or play around with. To improve their user experience. I mean what? what would you say that would be.

19:51.91
Simeon
Um, well I'd say sign up for a free trial at Sanity Io I had to get this sales pitch in there but no seriously. Um like I said before get a simple blog going and deploy it to production and and and get acquainted with what it's like to um to.

19:55.12
Kent
There you go? okay.

20:11.46
Simeon
Have the publish button mean something again because I do really think it's ah it's a big shift that we've probably gotten away from if you're on ah a big content editing team. You know the publish button did mean something because you know anybody could be triggering the build but I know like myself you know you just hit the publish button with reckless abandon because you knew it didn't mean anything but um.

20:28.72
Kent
And.

20:31.28
Simeon
I Know like the headless and the static like those terms lived in Harmony and were both treated as positives. But and I don't think like sanity and remix makes it a monolith because it doesn't feel like wordpress. But just I think just ah that that little bit of connection again that that that you're that.

20:40.58
Kent
Yeah, yeah.

20:47.46
Simeon
Your live content is really live on a live website or a live application means something again and that's really important too particularly with the ability to stream changes like the the guide we wrote for remix was like for live preview like I I get to watch changes take place live as I'm writing Keystroke by Keystroke on my.

21:05.78
Kent
Well, that.

21:06.81
Simeon
Remix website because that data came through comes through from sanity and that wasn't a lot of effort to set up and that didn't take any custom tooling on our site. It's just we had some libraries that make that happen and and that's all thanks to the engineering department that do all these amazing things like sanity is this toolbox I just get to turn up work and play with the legos. It's the best fun I've ever had. But. Yeah, you push the fastest thing you can through to production and then yeah, ah remember what it was like to publish things live again and because I think that's ah, that's ah, a shift in mentality that if you've only been if you become acquainted with static only in the last few years remembering how it used to be I think it'll be new for some but it's old for others I think that's been the fun of remix is that you're probably discovering some old people coming out of the woods and and and finding this how things used to be but also I think some people are going to see for the first time. What? what? it means? what the server client model means and that's a pretty exciting thing too.

21:45.49
Kent
Yeah.

21:52.11
Kent
I yeah.

22:03.15
Simeon
Particularly too because there's a lot of like fomo around like new technologies and things. But where remixes like it's It's a new framework but it's a lot of old ideas which so I think it's a pretty reliable set of set of ideas to build on. So.

22:04.78
Kent
And.

22:15.71
Kent
Yeah, yeah, you you might say it's a remix of the old and the new So there you go? Yeah yeah I think when when people do that I think that's a great suggestion. Get it deployed.

22:19.90
Simeon
Ah, bomb tish at sound but prepared.

22:33.33
Kent
On this new infra and and what better thing to deploy than ah, a blog. Um, you know, right? like when you're first getting started and then and that's why our our first quick start tutorial is a blog because that's like the natural thing. The next thing is is like a full app with authentication and stuff. Um.

22:37.33
Simeon
Yeah.

22:48.84
Simeon
M.

22:52.50
Kent
But I I agree with you because I I feel like um, that's a pretty simple thing to get set up and when people experience the deployment process of getting things deployed to the edge and see how fast it can be. And how nice it is to be able to hit that publish button then everything is is updated instantly. Um, that's that's a really awesome experience. Um, now I guess I should say that our quick start you would need to do a little bit of extra work to make it so that it will automatically take. Ah. Your your updated blog posted Well actually no could be because our quicks start shows you how to like edit those files and stuff. So yeah, you, you publish it and there it is. It's all all live. That's it's cool. Um, but yeah.

23:35.75
Simeon
And our sanity guide will show you how to actually have that inside the studio. So you're looking at the remix app inside the studio and and watching Keystroke changes take place live as well as published documents.

23:44.17
Kent
Yeah, yeah, and that yeah, exactly exactly and that and that is like what's cool about that is that something that really scales our our quick start guide is like hey let's just do this in. Ah, ah you know as a file system thing and then you need to start talking about persistent storage. But. I would challenge anybody to to take our quick start guide and and upgrade it to something like sanity. Um, because then you really can have something that like could you could give credentials to an entire team of of people and and they could all be working on this blog and stuff. Um. And once you've experienced that though like even for a pet project. Hopefully um, you start thinking? Wow this is really great I sure wish that my work project could do this you you start seeing all like cause we we get really used to the way things are at the companies that we're at right? and so um. When you start experiencing what it's like outside of your bubble then you start thinking? Okay, maybe there's a way we can make what we have today work a little bit like that now and the the mantra or the slogan or I don't know what to call it of of remixes build better websites sometimes we add sometimes with remix. Um. We're we're really just wanting to help make the experience of the web better for selfish reasons because we have to use the web and so hopefully people can kind of take some of the ideas that we're pushing and and that'll inspire them to make their own sites better even if they're not using remix.

25:05.37
Simeon
Yeah.

25:16.46
Simeon
Yeah, I'm excited not only to see where remix goes but where it pushes everyone else because I think if enough people I mean this might just be Annex data but I don't want to deal with the build step again like I'm just.

25:20.49
Kent
I yeah.

25:28.80
Kent
Yeah I.

25:31.78
Simeon
Um, done with the build step and ah and and like I said if if we can handle this much traffic through just cloudflare and fly even on ah on a default setup um like what is what is static solving for you now, but but I think I think everyone is kind of aware of that and that's why seeing so much resources poured into all manner of other ways to produce.

25:40.17
Kent
Yeah.

25:49.12
Simeon
Websites which is exciting for everyone like ah we all win. But yeah I'm excited to see where where you guys push everybody else I think this is pretty exciting and and yeah I think ah all web developers are just going to benefit from from challenge.

26:01.49
Kent
So yes, yeah I hope so um samin It's been awesome to chat with you was there anything else that you wanted to mention before we wrap up.

26:09.11
Simeon
Um I don't think so I think I pushed enough um enough advertising in here sideways I wasn't sure how much. Ah, ah, how aggressively to advertise so I just ah rammed it right in there. But.

26:19.50
Kent
You? Well you seem like ah, an authentic person and you authentically care about this a genuinely care about sanity. So I don't mind.

26:27.66
Simeon
Well legitimately like I still pinch myself I get to turn up to work at sanity I was I was using the product about a year and a half before I even joined the company and I feel like you know like sports fans have a dream of like joining the team and kicking the winning goal like i.

26:35.35
Kent
Um.

26:42.27
Simeon
I Can't believe they let me work for them like it's it I Still love the product as a fan as much as I do work there. So if there's authenticity. That's why because um yeah I just say it's It's just ah, it's great. Fun pain playing with the toys that engineering give us and and yeah.

26:42.88
Kent
Ah.

26:57.25
Kent
That's that's awesome I feel the same way about remix and it's It's always a shame like it's bittersweet when you join the company because you're like sweet I can't believe it like I'm here This is awesome. But then also you're like well dang it. Nobody's going to take what I say at face value anymore.

27:09.16
Simeon
Yeah, that's ah yeah, that's right and now and now that's why like I I can be awfully excited about things. But I also have to be careful because there's some official weight behind the things that I say too. So I.

27:19.26
Kent
Yeah, that's true. That's true. Yeah.

27:21.95
Simeon
I Hope I walked to fine line of being diplomatic day. But I'll I'll give excitement where it's due I'm excited about sanity. But I'm very excited about remix too. So.

27:29.34
Kent
That's wonderful. Oh that's great. Um, what's the best place for people to connect with you and keep up with what you're doing so.

27:33.22
Simeon
Um, I'm on Twitter at Simeon Greekeks S I M E O N G R I W gs that's probably the best place I don't tweet often. But if I've got something to say you'll see it there all right? excellent.

27:43.85
Kent
Awesome! Cool hey, thanks so much Simeon. It's a pleasure to chat with you and we'll talk with everybody else later.

27:52.61
Simeon
Thanks Kent.